File Name:		Renae Ollie.mp4
Transcriptionist:	Colin Morgan, 2021 November
Interviewee:		Renae Ollie, MCP
Interviewer:		Dave Gattis
Location:		Wylie, Texas, United States
Date:			2014 November 4
Duration:		29:35

Speaker Identification:
Dave Gattis:		DG
Renae Ollie, MCP:	RO

TRANSCRIPT BEGIN

[00:05] DG: Okay, this is Dave Gattis and today we're interviewing Renae Ollie, this is November 4th, and we're here at Wylie City Hall. So welcome, why don’t we start at the very beginning.

[00:16] RO: Alright.

[00:17] DG: Tell us when and where you were born. 

[00:19] RO: I was born in Austin, Texas, July 20, 1961. 

[00:23] DG: Okay, and tell me a little bit about your childhood, what your parents did. 

[00:27] RO: My mom was a schoolteacher. Actually, she was one of the first Black school teachers in Plano. I was born in Austin, but we moved to Plano right away. My dad was a supervisor for Workwell International, my mom was my first-grade teacher, she was my brother's first-grade teacher.

[00:45] DG: And how was that?

[00:49] RO: It was different, but it was great. But the difference was it seemed like school never ended. Because even at 2:30 when I’ve left the school building, school was still at home. But she taught us very well and taught us to appreciate and value education. 

[01:06] DG: So, then did you stay in Plano throughout your childhood?

[01:09] RO: Yes, I did.

[01:10] DG: Graduated high school [unintelligible]

[01:11] RO: Graduated high school from Plano Senior High. 

[01:13] DG: And then where did you go to college? 

[01:15] RO: I went to college, I got my undergraduate in, my Bachelors of Architecture at Prairie View A&M University, and then I worked for an architectural firm for probably three and a half years and then went to M.I.T. to get my master’s in city planning. 

[01:30] DG: Okay, and what got you interested in architecture? 

[01:34] RO: That's real odd. I went to Prairie View to major in child psychology and after first year it just really wasn't there for me and, I think I was just going through the catalog and thought “What do I want to do?” and I picked architecture. And I remember calling home and telling my parents “I'm changing my major to architecture,” and the first thing out of my mom's mouth was “Architecture? You’ve never taken art, you can't draw.” But it proved to be very, very well, I graduated with honors. While I was there, I served as the student president for the chapter and excelled in it. It was great.

[02:16] DG: Okay, and which architecture firm did you work for and where was it? 

[02:19] RO: In Los Colinas was the first architecture firm, S.W.C. Architects. They did mostly educational buildings and then from there I went to a company called Haywood Jordan McCowan and they did a little bit of, mostly commercial buildings, not very much residential, but local stuff in the Dallas area. 

[02:38] DG: Okay, and did you just do design?

[02:40] RO: Design. Some design, mostly construction documents, the details. And that's what I like the most, doing the details, how it all goes together. 

[02:50] DG: Any particular project that you're particularly proud of?

[02:54] RO: Texas American Bank building. That was the first one that I actually did design work, did detail work, and actually got to see. It was located right next door to our office, so I got to see the construction of it, and from pencil and paper to actual brick and mortar. So, that was pretty cool. 

[03:14] DG: But what took you to M.I.T.? 

[03:16] RO: A professor from Prairie View actually went there. So, in the mid-80s, kind of when the economy kind of had a downturn, I got laid off and he suggested that I go to graduate school. And it was interesting to kind of go from architecture to planning, you know, for all those years that I was in architecture, on the side of the table that did the drawings and then I wanted to see what the other side of the table was, be the one that reviewed them or approved them. So that was kind of my reason for going into planning, to just see how the other side lives. 

[03:50] DG: So, what got you interested in planning to begin with? Having to deal with them as part of the architecture firm?

[03:55] RO: Yes, yes, yeah. 

[03:58] DG: Okay, so how did M.I.T. work out? 

[04:01] RO: It was great because it it was a lot of hands on. You know, the professors that were there were very instrumental in the city and the development of the city. So, a lot of our projects were true projects. You know, it wasn't just theory, it wasn't just books, you know, we got out in the field, we got out and worked with the the development corporations there, we got out and work with the communities, and it was different, coming from architecture where it was so much on the private side and then going into planning, a lot of dealing with the public side that I wasn't used to at first. And even talking architecture, I drew everything that I wanted to say. But in planning, there was a lot of speaking, a lot of writing that I had to get used to being in that public realm and talking to citizens. So, it was an eye opener, but I enjoyed it. It was great.

[05:02] DG: Okay, any particular professors that stand out in your mind? 

[05:06] RO: Oh, that was like 100 years ago. [laughs] Phillip Clay, he was actually my thesis advisor. And Sandra Lambert, I believe was her name, was my secondary thesis advisor. She was in the real estate department. So, they were very instrumental in helping me bridge that gap between design on paper and real life. So, that helped a lot and working with me through the whole thesis process, and headaches, and all that stuff.

[05:42] DG: And what was your thesis topic?

[05:44] RO: Minority development associations. My idea was rather than one group pulling together a project you get, and ‘minority’ not so much in race but ‘minority’ in the sense of the little guy. The small guy that's going to be involved in that community to the big developer that's going to be involved in that community, all coming together to put together a project. So, that was kind of the basis of my thesis, how do you pull all the stakeholders, regardless of the level that they're in, how do you pull them together to make it a win-win for everybody? 

[06:23] DG: Ok, then you're fresh out of M.I.T., what did you do next? 

[06:27] RO: Came back to Dallas area, moved back home, and actually went back to work for the architectural firm that I was working for when I left. And I stayed there, maybe a year or two and saw an ad for a planner with the city of Plano, and Plano’s home. So I thought, “Okay, this could be my start.” And they actually hired me as a planning tech, and I loved it and, you know, Plano was home. The people there, Christina, and Phyllis, and Frank and all those people, Tom, gave me my start, and it was a great experience to be able to work in the city that I grew up in and see it develop.

[07:13] DG: And for the people who don't know who Christina, and Phyllis, and Frank are, they have last names, right?
[07:20] RO: [laughs] Yes. Christina Day, Phyllis Jarrell, Frank Turner and Tom Elgin were in the planning department, Phyllis was the Director of Planning and Christina was a senior planner, and they gave me my start. 

[07:36] DG: Okay, and any particular projects that you worked on there that you’re particularly proud of or not so proud of or?

[07:42] RO: No, not, there's none that I'm not proud of, all of them, everything that I did there I think was great. It was a great experience for me, I learned a lot. I was able to really explore a lot. I remember they kind of let me run with the whole façade review, and I rewrote some of the regulations and that got to be my baby. So I enjoyed that, I enjoyed the freedom and the flexibility that they allowed me to really develop. 

[08:15] DG: And so, after Plano, what next?

[08:17] RO: I went to McKinney for a while, about a year, and I was in the long-range planning department there, and worked a lot on their comprehensive plan, and they were doing a parking study for the downtown area. So, I got a chance to work on that and that was about a year. And then, I saw a position open here in Wylie, and I was hired here as a planning assistant and served in that role for two years, and then was promoted to planning director. I've been here 10 years now.

[08:47] DG: Okay, and how has Wylie changed over those ten years?

[08:49] RO: Oh my gosh! When I started in 2004, I think a few months after I started, the first Super Walmart, opened. So it was like the big retail, there's a lot of residential, not very much retail here. So, then that meant little by little, a lot of the retail started. And then over the last five years it has just been booming. Last year we platted, or site planned, almost fourteen hundred single family lots. So that was great, and the opportunity to work with our staff here, our city manager, Mindy Manson, I can't think of a better place to be.

[09:30] DG: Okay, you happen to remember what the population was ten years ago?

[09:34] RO: When I started, I want to say maybe 35,000. Something like that, and we're a little over 42,000 now.

[09:48] DG: And what kinds of changes, planning-wise, have there been any particular projects that you're proud of or ordinance revisions?

[09:57] RO: Oh, where do I start? The biggest one, I think, and the one that I'm most proud of, is our downtown historic district. In 2001, the district was created, but, you know, it was a few little streets, not really a well-defined ordinance. So, we've gone through, we've extended the boundaries twice to create additional houses, additional commercial buildings. We recently, this year, we created a historic review commission that will oversee any kind of major revisions in the area, that it has to go through that board to help preserve. You know, we have a council that supports the preservation of the historic character of Wylie. You know, and two fires have destroyed downtown over the last twenty years maybe. But there's still a need to preserve it. So, it may not always be qualified to register with the state, but it's important to us. So, to get people to support that, I work with some of the downtown merchants. We created a group called "The Lone Range Planning" where we just kind of have a vision, what do we want to see downtown? How do we want to promote it? So, we meet monthly, scattered here and there, just to throw out ideas even with the ordinance amendments, it's not just at the staff level, but we invite the citizens to be a part of it to say, "What do they want to see?" You know, going in knowing that everything you want to see, you may not be able to see, it may not happen, but let's talk about it. Also, the Neighborhood A.C.T.I.O.N. Plan, and the "action" stands for Accountable Communities Through the Involvement Of Neighborhoods, where, you know, at some point every new development will be old. Every new development will go to a phase of redevelopment. So, we went, and we identified sixteen neighborhoods where homes may have been built in the early 1930s to try to promote that neighbor of really wanting to upkeep their property. So, we just started having meetings with those neighbors and saying, just asking a simple question, "What do you want?" And it went from sidewalks to trees to 'paint my house,' you know, everything. And one neighborhood that I'm very proud of, it’s an older neighborhood,
they had huge trees in their front yards, sidewalks, some of them were two feet wide, crumbling. You know, people can't go down the sidewalks, they have to get in the street. So, we found this company, I believe they were out of Louisiana, that did recycled tires to make rubber sidewalks. So, in some of those areas that had a huge tree that had buckled under the sidewalk, rather than take the tree out, we replaced the sidewalk with rubber sidewalks, so then the roots can still breathe. So that was a pretty cool project, and here three, four years later, you know, people are still saying, "Wow, that was cool. Now I can walk up and down the sidewalk. I still have my huge tree." And just driving down those streets with the huge canopies is, that's the neighborhood, that was a neat project. I enjoyed that.

[13:20] DG: So, that's kind of bringing that minority participation from your thesis topic.

[13:26] RO: Yes!

[13:27] DG: Getting the citizen involved.

[13:29] RO: Yes.

[13:30] DG: Okay, and then do you still do a lot of design? Having an architecture background, is design very important or?

[13:37] RO: I don't do a lot of design, but it does help when, you know, we have a developer come in and they're designing their building and, you know, trying to adhere to our ordinances but, yet, trying to keep whatever their franchise look may be, and sometimes they'll say "Well, you know I can't do that." Oh, yeah you can. "Well, no, we can't do that, we don't have a design for that." and I'll draw it up, say "Yeah, you can," you know, and that comes in handy a lot of times and I always say, you know, "My mom and dad didn't pay all that money for me to go to architecture school to just say 'you can't', yeah, you can do it, I'll show you how." But it does come in handy a lot, even reviewing the site plans and things, you know, because of my background, certain things that I could see and be able to discuss with that designer.

[14:27] DG: Okay, and, I didn't check and should note, you do have your A.I.C.P.?

[14:32] RO: I do not.

[14:33] DG: Okay.

[14:33] RO: I do not.

[14:35] DG: Are you thinking about it or?

[14:36] RO: I'm thinking about it, I've thought about it. I have tried and was not successful. Then I thought about doing it again, and here recently I've taken over the planning department, as well as code enforcement and building inspection. So, the time is just not there. I just, I don't have time to put in the studying that I think would be required.

[14:59] DG: Well, it sounds like you're moving up in an organization. You got aspirations to go into management, or, beyond just the department director?

[15:09] RO: Maybe. [laughs]

[15:11] DG: Okay.

[15:11] RO: Only if Mindy retires, I'll do it. Yeah, I don't know.

[15:16] DG: Okay, well so at some point in time you've got involved in A.P.A. When did that happen and what did you do?

[15:23] RO: When I was in Plano, Christina Day was the secretary of the state chapter, I believe, and then her term was, no, while she was in her term, she asked me if I wanted to get involved at the state level and I was like, "sure!" And I served as Listserv Manager and it was a lot of fun, but it was a lot of work. I mean, and I think half the people knew me just because all the emails and you know, back then, technology was nowhere near what is now. So, a lot of the emails that got sent out, half the people didn't want to see them. So, I had to deal with, "Please take my name off that list! Quit sending me!" But that's how I got involved as Listserv manager, and I served in that role, I want to say, maybe two or three years. And I'll never forget, we were at the national conference in Philadelphia, and I ran into David Hoover, and he said, "Hey, Renae you should run for office at the state level." Like, no, no, no, no, no, no. He was like, “Yeah, you should consider it.” And we talked about it. He kind of told me what was involved, I talked with Christina and with, you know, with the city of Plano and they were okay with it and they
gave me their blessing. So, I was like, "Sure, I'll do it." And from there, [laughs]

[16:46] DG: And so, you ran for?

[16:47] RO: I ran for State Secretary and was successful in that and served in that role for two years, and then from there ran for president-elect. And I think that was, we were sitting by the pool at a board meeting in Rockport and Veronica Rosales, we were sitting there. She goes, "You should run for president-elect." I'm like, "Oh, I don't know.
You know, secretary was fine. But I don't know." And at that time, I was here in Wiley. So, I came back, and I talked with Mindy, and Mindy is a planner, so she understood. She knew how important it was. So, she gave me her blessing and I made that call to Vero
and to David and said, "Okay, I'll run.” And it has really been awesome. The connections that you make, and I don't know if people realize, you know, when you're in certain organizations, what that really means. I mean, yeah, you have a job to do. You have certain tasks to accomplish. But the friends that you meet, the networking that you get to do that normally you wouldn't get to do it. You know, I look at me here in Wylie, a third ring suburb of Dallas, half the people, more than half the people that I know in planning. I would have never, ever gotten the opportunity to meet had it not been for A.P.A. Specifically, had it not been for Texas A.P.A.

[18:24] DG: So, you've been on the board for a while. State, a number of different capacities, city, particular people on the board that really stand out to you?

[18:33] RO: All of them. You know, David Hoover, Dick Lily, you, Karen Walls. Just the people that I know that I could call at any time and get valuable information from or get an idea or "Hey, how did you handle this." To me, It's just priceless.

[18:59] DG: And what were the hot issues on the board when you were president?

[19:03] RO: Oh, C.M. credits. We were going through that, trying to get that all outlined
from the national level, and just a lot of drill down from national to state to the sections. A lot of that with the C.M. And then as I was rolling off as president, just trying to go to the consolidated ballot. Those were the two hot-hot topics, the C.M. credit, I think, was probably the most. Oh, and how could I forget, the whole financial thing is getting all the sections under one umbrella, under the chapter finances. That was a big deal. And again, you know, most of the things that are very controversial usually is because, just lack of information. You teach somebody and you get them to understand the 'whys,' then I think it rolls out better.

[20:06] DG: And one of the responsibilities of a chapter president is also to serve at the national level on the chapter presidents council. What are your memories of that?

[20:15] RO: That was great. The first year that I went to the D.C., the fall leadership meeting, I actually went as a proxy for Vero, because she was having her first child, I believe. So, she wasn't able to go, so I had to go. It was kind of overwhelming because that was the first time and it was kind of last minute, so I didn't really know what to expect. But everybody that I met there was so understanding, "Okay, hey, this is your first time," "Hey, this is where you go," "This is what you do," you know, this person. And they would just point out everything that was going on. But that second year that I went, it was a great opportunity to see what other chapters do. And yes, I know we're being videoed, but I have to say Texas is the best chapter. You know, a lot of things that I would hear people talk about and some of the issues that they were facing, you know, kind of setbacks. I'm sorry, I can't relate to that. You know, that's not an issue for us. But Texas is a great chapter and, you know, I think it's because of the leaderships that have been here in the past and kind of laid the foundation. But the fall leadership, it was a great opportunity to see what other chapters do, even meeting with some of the divisions and getting an understanding of what they do, what that role is that sometimes, just as a member, you don't get to see.

[21:41] DG: Okay, well, now as the past president, do you have aspirations to run for another office or?

[21:49] RO: I'm still thinking about it. You know, at first when I was just getting ready to roll off, I thought "I'm not ready to stop yet, I wanna keep doing something." So, I thought about it, but then things here at work, you know, with the other departments
kind of took over, then home life. You know, my kids, I have a 17-year-old and a 13-year-old that keep me really busy. So, I couldn't do that, but I think I do because I really like A.P.A., the organization, so I want to stay involved.

[22:23] DG: Okay, are you involved in any other professional organizations?

[22:26] RO: No, I don't have time. [laughs]

[22:31] DG: So, thinking over your career, have there been any mentors that really stood out for you? You mentioned Christina and you mentioned David a couple times. Are there other people that you kind of look up to or?

[22:43] RO: My architecture professor, two of them at Prairie View, Ben McMillan and Simon Wilts, just really changed my whole thought of professionalism, you know, just kind of set the groundwork. When I was at Prairie View, I remember my junior year, Ben McMillan, he told us in class, you know, "You guys need to call your parents and tell them to send you some money, because you ladies are gonna have to get dresses, heels and pantyhose, you guys are gonna have to get suits. That's how I want you to come to class." You know, we're in college we're like, "We want to wear tennis shoes and jeans." He's like, "Now I'm getting you ready for the professional world. You're not gonna wear tennis shoes and jeans to work. So, this is how you will come to my class." And, you know, I'd be walking around campus with two, three-inch heels and pantyhose on, and that got me ready. So, you know, now, it even took me a while to wear jeans on Fridays, because that's just not how it was molded. And just being professional and taking everything you do as an opportunity to strive for more. And, you know, those were my two professors that, and even when I was at M.I.T., they brought a group of students up during the summer to visit the school. So, that was a big impression on me.

[24:14] DG: Okay, how about any proteges? Anybody that you're kind of mentoring too?

[24:22] RO: There was one student, her name was Monica, Monica Werum. She graduated from Wylie High, and she's actually at Texas A&M now, or she may have graduated last year. But she called me up and said "Hey, I'm thinking about planning school but not really sure. Do you have some time to talk to me?" So, I talked to her and actually we did two summer interns with her, she came in and I told her, "We got to make this real, because if I'm trying to push you into planning, you can't do an internship where you're just making copies." And at the time that she came, we were working on updating our Comp. Plan. So, she got involved with that, and after her first year, she sent me a letter and said, "I know what I wanna do, I wanna go into planning school." And this summer before last, she actually did an internship abroad in Germany. So, she was kind of my first one to, that I could say, "I kind of molded her to that, planning." So, it was great, it was great, and I guess that's probably the only one. A few of the elementary
schools, every year in October do a National Community Planning Month, we'll
go to the schools and kind of tell them about city government, tell them about planning. And I remember one year, the teacher had all the students write a thank you letter and one of them, I think they were in fifth grade, and she wrote, "I know what I want to be when grow up, I want to be a planner." And I still have that note in my desk because I thought that was pretty cool. Even my son, who is the sports person, that's all he wants to do. And he'll even tell me, "I think I'm gonna be a city planner." So, you know, for him to say that that's a major accomplishment.

[26:11] DG: Some of the people we've interviewed have talked about their struggles as women in the career and I just wondered, have you had any issues with being a
woman and a woman of color?
[26:24] RO: I don't know that I would say it's an issue. I would say yes, it has happened, it has been, you know, presented, things have been said. But I would not say it's an issue, and I say that because my greatest mentor, of course is my mom, you know, with her being in education, she always taught us, "You strive for everything you want, nothing is going to be given to you." And she never made it that it's not going to be given to you because you're a woman of color, you know, that's just life, but you are a woman of color, so you do whatever you want, you try hard for it, to achieve it. So, when someone, you know, presents something to me or says something to me to make it seem like I can't do it because I'm a woman, a woman of color, I just kind of push that to the side. So, it's, yeah, it's there, but I don't let it be an issue. Because to me it's only an issue if I let it be an issue not because that's what you say. So. I am who I am. I'm a woman of color, proud woman of color. What I can't do is because I choose not to.

[27:28] DG: You have any particular advice to a young planner that's starting out their career?

[27:33] RO: Go for it. You know, do it because you like it, because
that's what you love to do. Don't make planning just the job, and that's why I like being here in Wylie. Because it's not just a job to me. You know, I live, it takes me six minutes to get to work, that's through two school zones, two lights, and I'm here. But I'm not here just because it's close to home, I'm here because I love my job. I love what I do. I love interacting with people. You know, even the people that may not like what I say, but if I'm giving you the information, I want you to walk out of my office informed and understand that I was fair. You may not get the answer that you want. But, you know, that's why we have rules and regulations. But to that young planner, grab all the information that you can, you know, lean on any person that's been in the field for a while, grab hold of everything that you can and run with it and think outside the box.

[28:34] DG: Okay, we've covered a lot of territory. Is there anything that you want to talk about that we haven't talked about?

[28:41] RO: No, I just, I love what I do. I love planning, I'm grateful to Texas A.P.A., to the leaders that have come before me, I'm grateful for the opportunity that they gave me, and you know, being a woman of color that was the president of Texas A.P.A., I see that a lot sometimes when I meet people and I'll tell them, "Yeah, I was president of Texas A.P.A." And their eyes kind of go like that. You know, I know what that means. But to me that's an honor for me, but I think it's also an honor for Texas A.P.A., to say "there's no color barriers." That's who we are. You know, we're diverse, that's who we are, and I'm grateful for that.

[29:24] DG: Okay, I want to thank you very much for doing this.

[29:26] RO: Thank you!

[29:27] DG: And we really appreciate it.

[29:29] RO: Thank you.

[29:29] DG: Okay.

TRANSCRIPT END